Daily Usenet Report

Mar 18 00:01:02 -- Mar 19 00:01:01

Unknown entries from news log file:

First 2 / 2 lines (100.0%)

Mar 18 08:14:18 newsfeed innd: message repeated 2 times: [ ctlinnd command s]
Mar 19 00:00:01 newsfeed nnrpd[3777692]: localhost auth: program exited with status 8

Log entries by program:

Program nameLines%LinesSize%Size
nnrpd 14320 37.1%1.8 MB 22.3%
innd 9568 24.8%1.4 MB 17.3%
inn 9428 24.4%3.8 MB 48.4%
innfeed 4693 12.1%886.3 KB 11.0%
cnfsstat 576 1.5%87.0 KB 1.1%
nocem 55 0.1%6.6 KB 0.1%
controlchan 1 0.0%0.1 KB 0.0%
TOTAL: 7 38641 100.0%7.9 MB100.0%

History cache:

ReasonCount%Count
Positive hits 139148 63.3%
Negative hits 71071 32.4%
Do not exist 9330 4.2%
Cache misses 114 0.1%
TOTAL: 4 219663 100.0%

innd timer:

Code regionTimePctInvokedMin(ms)Avg(ms)Max(ms)
article cancel00:00:00.161 0.0%25 0.000 6.440 26.000
article cleanup00:00:00.138 0.0%9375 0.000 0.015 0.244
article logging00:00:00.461 0.0%9421 0.000 0.049 0.347
article parse00:00:00.213 0.0%14538 0.000 0.015 0.052
article write00:00:03.024 0.0%7364 0.000 0.411 11.793
artlog/artcncl00:00:00.000 0.0%9 0.000 0.000 0.000
artlog/artparse00:00:00.000 0.0%1 0.000 0.000 0.000
data move00:00:00.178 0.0%222870 0.000 0.001 0.013
hisgrep/artcncl00:00:00.132 0.0%30 0.000 4.400 12.000
hishave/artcncl00:00:00.001 0.0%9 0.000 0.111 1.000
hishave/artparse00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
history grep00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
history lookup00:02:54.596 0.2%221656 0.091 0.788 11.452
history sync00:00:00.073 0.0%401 0.000 0.182 2.000
history write00:02:19.166 0.2%9375 3.098 14.844 112.438
hiswrite/artcncl00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
hiswrite/artparse00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
idle23:39:59.776 98.5%219052 78.568 388.948 2308.815
nntp read00:00:04.119 0.0%224424 0.004 0.018 0.348
overview write00:14:20.176 1.0%7364 0.600 116.808 9226.400
perl filter00:00:27.828 0.0%9374 1.342 2.969 15.103
python filter00:00:01.831 0.0%9374 0.000 0.195 8.641
site send00:00:01.295 0.0%14771 0.000 0.088 0.260
TOTAL: 2324:00:13.168 99.9%----

innfeed timer:

Code regionTimePctInvokedMin(ms)Avg(ms)Max(ms)
article new00:00:00.021 0.0%7649 0.000 0.003 0.059
article prepare00:00:00.008 0.0%56533 0.000 0.000 0.004
article read00:00:00.625 0.0%4601 0.000 0.136 0.276
backlog stats00:00:00.514 0.0%304541 0.000 0.002 0.007
callbacks00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
data read00:00:02.920 0.0%208709 0.003 0.014 0.040
data write00:00:04.140 0.0%203513 0.008 0.020 0.037
idle23:57:52.629100.0%304541 138.671 283.287 1754.364
status file00:00:00.495 0.0%392 1.000 1.263 8.000
TOTAL: 923:58:01.352100.0%----

nnrpd timer:

Code regionTimePctInvokedMin(ms)Avg(ms)Max(ms)
idle00:30:38.732 99.8%8340 24.500 220.471163949.250
newnews00:00:00.000 0.0%0 0.000 0.000 0.000
nntpwrite00:00:04.069 0.2%95509 0.000 0.043 0.333
TOTAL: 300:30:42.801100.0%----

Control commands to innd:

CommandNumber
flush 5
flushlogs 2
go 2
logmode 2
lowmark 1
mode 98
name 2
pause 2
paused 2
reload 2
reserve 2
TOTAL: 11 120

Incoming feeds (innd):

ServerConnectsOfferedTakenRefusedReject%AccptElapsed
1news.dne3.net 16 6758 1525 4955 278 22%23:04:34
2usenet.goja.nl.eu.org 10 8005 869 6889 247 10%23:26:42
3usenet.blueworldhosting.com 719 8965 760 7511 694 8%23:46:34
4endofthelinebbs-out.news.weretis.net 2 13316 667 12532 117 5%44:10:13
5usenet.network 1 6256 566 5670 20 9%23:59:58
6news.nntp4.net 1 7252 490 6626 136 6%23:59:56
7nntp.comgw.net 1 8251 457 7634 160 5%23:59:58
8newsfeed.bofh.team 1 8989 347 8562 80 3%23:59:57
9i2pn.org 1 7798 257 7465 76 3%23:59:48
10news.corradoroberto.it 2 1772 227 1545 0 12%23:57:09
11glockenspiel.complete.org 2 5759 206 5532 21 3%23:57:36
12endoftheline-out.news.chmurka.net 2 3746 204 3541 1 5%23:59:34
13news.hispagatos.org 5 8292 161 8091 40 1%24:26:22
14194.87.241.33 42 315 159 127 29 50%15:54:31
15news.samoylyk.net 2 6786 154 6627 5 2%23:58:47
16newsfeed.xs3.de 1 6400 112 6277 11 1%23:59:56
17endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com 26 8275 93 8161 21 1%24:05:41
18news.furie.org.uk 2 3910 48 3862 0 1%23:59:07
19peering.usenet.ovh 2 7871 27 7841 3 0%23:59:40
20news.netfront.net 1 6519 12 6469 38 0%22:26:10
21photonic.trudheim.com 3 1966 7 1959 0 0%25:14:14
22news.bbs.nz 1 6847 4 6843 0 0%23:59:35
23outgoing.news.lysator.liu.se 2 4847 1 4846 0 0%23:59:44
24eotl-out.news.tnetconsulting.net 1 0 0 0 0 0%00:10:04
25localhost 28 0 0 0 0 0%00:00:00
26news.nk.ca 2 0 0 0 0 0%00:20:12
TOTAL: 26 876 148895 7353 139565 1977 4%562:56:02
Articles received by server

Incoming volume (innd):

ServerAcceptVolDupVolRejVolTotalVol%AccVol/Art
1usenet.network6.8 MB0.0 KB20.4 KB6.9 MB 99%12.0 KB
2news.dne3.net4.2 MB0.0 KB435.9 KB4.6 MB 90%2.6 KB
3usenet.goja.nl.eu.org2.4 MB0.0 KB383.2 KB2.8 MB 86%2.6 KB
4endofthelinebbs-out.news.weretis.net2.2 MB0.0 KB513.3 KB2.7 MB 81%3.5 KB
5usenet.blueworldhosting.com2.0 MB0.0 KB1.9 MB3.8 MB 51%2.7 KB
6nntp.comgw.net1.4 MB0.0 KB464.9 KB1.9 MB 75%3.1 KB
7news.nntp4.net1.3 MB0.0 KB177.8 KB1.5 MB 88%2.4 KB
8news.corradoroberto.it1.2 MB0.0 KB0.0 KB1.2 MB100%5.3 KB
9newsfeed.bofh.team994.4 KB0.0 KB114.0 KB1.1 MB 89%2.6 KB
10news.samoylyk.net978.3 KB0.0 KB5.3 KB983.6 KB 99%6.2 KB
11glockenspiel.complete.org853.0 KB0.0 KB50.9 KB903.9 KB 94%4.0 KB
12i2pn.org770.9 KB0.0 KB131.7 KB902.7 KB 85%2.7 KB
13news.hispagatos.org557.2 KB1.8 KB67.7 KB626.7 KB 88%3.1 KB
14endoftheline-out.news.chmurka.net517.2 KB0.0 KB0.8 KB518.0 KB 99%2.5 KB
15newsfeed.xs3.de501.5 KB0.0 KB25.6 KB527.0 KB 95%4.3 KB
16194.87.241.33388.0 KB0.0 KB39.2 KB427.2 KB 90%2.3 KB
17news.furie.org.uk268.8 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB268.8 KB100%5.6 KB
18endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com267.2 KB0.0 KB30.8 KB298.1 KB 89%2.6 KB
19peering.usenet.ovh170.5 KB0.0 KB3.6 KB174.1 KB 97%5.8 KB
20news.netfront.net37.2 KB0.0 KB674.7 KB711.9 KB 5%14.2 KB
21photonic.trudheim.com32.3 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB32.3 KB100%4.6 KB
22news.bbs.nz8.5 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB8.5 KB100%2.1 KB
23outgoing.news.lysator.liu.se4.3 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB4.3 KB100%4.3 KB
24eotl-out.news.tnetconsulting.net0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB 0%0
25localhost0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB 0%0
26news.nk.ca0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB 0%0
TOTAL: 2627.7 MB1.8 KB4.9 MB32.6 MB 84%3.6 KB
Incoming volume received by server

Incoming articles (innd):

DateArticles%ArtsArt/secSize%SizeKB/sec
Mar 18 00:01:02 - 00:59:59 182 2.5% 0.05759.8 KB 2.7% 0.21
Mar 18 01:00:00 - 01:59:59 184 2.5% 0.05514.0 KB 1.8% 0.14
Mar 18 02:00:00 - 02:59:59 240 3.3% 0.071.4 MB 5.2% 0.41
Mar 18 03:00:00 - 03:59:59 337 4.6% 0.091.1 MB 4.0% 0.31
Mar 18 04:00:00 - 04:59:59 340 4.6% 0.091.2 MB 4.3% 0.34
Mar 18 05:00:00 - 05:59:59 366 5.0% 0.101.1 MB 3.9% 0.31
Mar 18 06:00:00 - 06:59:59 404 5.5% 0.111.4 MB 5.3% 0.41
Mar 18 07:00:00 - 07:59:59 335 4.6% 0.09986.7 KB 3.5% 0.27
Mar 18 08:00:00 - 08:59:59 378 5.1% 0.101.1 MB 4.0% 0.31
Mar 18 09:00:00 - 09:59:59 416 5.7% 0.121.6 MB 5.9% 0.46
Mar 18 10:00:00 - 10:59:59 459 6.2% 0.132.2 MB 7.9% 0.62
Mar 18 11:00:00 - 11:59:59 461 6.3% 0.131.8 MB 6.7% 0.52
Mar 18 12:00:00 - 12:59:59 456 6.2% 0.131.5 MB 5.6% 0.44
Mar 18 13:00:00 - 13:59:59 409 5.6% 0.111.1 MB 4.1% 0.32
Mar 18 14:00:00 - 14:59:59 442 6.0% 0.121.5 MB 5.3% 0.41
Mar 18 15:00:00 - 15:59:59 350 4.8% 0.101.3 MB 4.7% 0.36
Mar 18 16:00:00 - 16:59:59 322 4.4% 0.091.2 MB 4.4% 0.34
Mar 18 17:00:00 - 17:59:59 286 3.9% 0.081.1 MB 3.8% 0.30
Mar 18 18:00:00 - 18:59:59 251 3.4% 0.071.1 MB 4.0% 0.31
Mar 18 19:00:00 - 19:59:59 164 2.2% 0.05876.5 KB 3.1% 0.24
Mar 18 20:00:00 - 20:59:59 152 2.1% 0.04680.4 KB 2.4% 0.19
Mar 18 21:00:00 - 21:59:59 160 2.2% 0.04757.3 KB 2.7% 0.21
Mar 18 22:00:00 - 22:59:59 157 2.1% 0.04764.3 KB 2.7% 0.21
Mar 18 23:00:00 - 23:59:59 108 1.5% 0.03431.4 KB 1.5% 0.12
Mar 19 00:00:00 - 00:01:01 3 0.0% 0.056.3 KB 0.0% 0.10
TOTAL: 23:59:59 7362 100.0% 0.0927.4 MB 100.0% 0.32
Incoming articles
Incoming articles (size)

CNFS buffer status:

BufferClassSizeUsed%UsedCyclesKB/secDays
CYCNGS1NGS1536.0 GB48.0 MB 0.0% 1 0.00 0.00
CYCNGS2NGS1536.0 GB105.2 GB 6.9% 0 0.5037413.03
CYCNGS3NGS1536.0 GB48.0 MB 0.0% 0 0.00 0.00
CYCTXT1TEXT5.0 GB4.2 GB 83.4% 0 0.03 1939.78
TOTAL: 4-4613.0 GB109.5 GB 2.4% 1 0.37-

Sites sending bad articles:

ServerTotalGroupDistDuplicUnappTooOldSiteLineOther
1usenet.blueworldhosting.com 698 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 698
2news.dne3.net 279 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 279
3usenet.goja.nl.eu.org 254 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 254
4nntp.comgw.net 180 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 180
5endofthelinebbs-out.news.weretis.net 154 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 154
6news.nntp4.net 143 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 143
7newsfeed.bofh.team 84 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 82
8i2pn.org 77 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 77
9news.netfront.net 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 50
10news.hispagatos.org 43 13 0 1 0 0 0 0 29
11194.87.241.33 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 29
12usenet.network 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25
13endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21
14newsfeed.xs3.de 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11
15news.samoylyk.net 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5
16peering.usenet.ovh 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3
17endoftheline-out.news.chmurka.net 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
TOTAL: 17 2057 15 0 1 0 0 0 0 2041

Unwanted newsgroups [Top 20]:

NewsgroupCount
hispagatos.mastodon.tag.hacking 13
alt.alt.anonymous 1
alt.fan.trainspotting 1
TOTAL: 3 15

Perl filter (innd) [Top 20]:

ReasonCount
EMP (phn path) 1021
EMP (phr path) 344
Too many newsgroups 258
EMP (md5) 201
Too many newsgroups (meow) 111
Angle-bracket bot 32
User-issued cancel 19
EMP (phn nph) 3
HTML Multipart 3
HTML post 1
User-issued spam cancel 1
TOTAL: 11 1994

NoCeM on spool:

Issuer (type)NoticesBad PGPCancelSkipTotal
i2pn2-nocem@i2pn2.org (spam)30404
robot@pasdenom.info (spam2)22002323
i2pn2-nocem@i2pn2.org (rmp)9001717
robot@pasdenom.info (spam4)6001212
i2pn2-nocem@i2pn2.org (multipost)70099
robot@pasdenom.info (spam3)40066
TOTAL: 651046771

Miscellaneous innd statistics [Top 10]:

EventServerNumber
Including strange strings
nntp.comgw.net 12
usenet.goja.nl.eu.org 7
news.nntp4.net 6
usenet.network 5
endofthelinebbs-out.news.weretis.net 5
usenet.blueworldhosting.com 4
newsfeed.bofh.team 4
endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com 1
news.netfront.net 1
i2pn.org 1
TOTAL: 10 46
No colon-space in header field
usenet.blueworldhosting.com 1
TOTAL: 1 1
TOTAL: 2 47

Outgoing feeds (innfeed) by articles:

ServerOfferedTakenRefusedRejectMissSpool%TookElapsed
1nyheter.lysator.liu.se 7785 2663 4116 574 0 0 34%23:59:54
2news.netfront.net 12169 1798 5543 0 0 15 14%23:59:54
3news.dne3.net 5849 1182 4032 592 0 45 20%23:59:54
4news.furie.org.uk 4510 1019 2507 6 0 0 22%23:59:54
5photonic.trudheim.com 8564 536 5536 1280 0 0 6%23:59:53
6peering.usenet.ovh 8080 481 6781 80 0 0 5%23:59:54
7endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com 7816 436 6903 11 0 0 5%23:59:06
8usenet.goja.nl.eu.org 7517 279 5877 41 0 0 3%23:59:52
9news.nntp4.net 7882 276 6486 5 0 34 3%23:59:54
10news.nk.ca 10266 101 6681 477 0 37 0%23:59:54
11newsfeed.bofh.team 7832 88 6896 0 0 0 1%23:59:45
12news.corradoroberto.it 1002 88 594 0 0 0 8%22:45:51
13news.hispagatos.org 8735 83 7027 86 0 0 0%23:59:54
14i2pn.org 7930 68 6943 42 0 15 0%23:59:54
15news.bbs.nz 13539 63 6740 535 0 52 0%23:59:44
16usenet.network 8503 57 6220 42 0 0 0%23:58:57
17nntp.comgw.net 7405 56 6796 34 0 0 0%23:57:52
18news.weretis.net 7825 15 7013 324 0 0 0%23:59:54
19news.quux.org 7500 14 6613 395 0 0 0%23:59:50
20newsfeed.xs3.de 8990 13 7056 162 0 0 0%23:59:54
21news.samoylyk.net 9170 11 7076 28 0 84 0%23:59:54
22news.tnetconsulting.net 9605 9 7053 286 0 18 0%23:59:38
23news.chmurka.net 4530 9 3319 0 0 0 0%23:58:05
24ddt.demos.su 39 7 32 0 0 0 17%05:28:33
25usenet.blueworldhosting.com 7275 1 6378 0 0 1 0%23:59:42
26feed.opticnetworks.net 0 0 0 0 0 7354 0%23:59:54
TOTAL: 26 190318 9353 140218 5000 0 7655 4%604:05:30
Outgoing feeds (innfeed) by articles

Outgoing feeds (innfeed) by volume:

ServerAcceptVolRejectVolTotalVolVolume/secVol/ArtElapsed
1news.netfront.net9.6 MB0.0 KB9.6 MB0.1 KB/s5.4 KB23:59:54
2nyheter.lysator.liu.se8.7 MB5.1 MB13.7 MB0.2 KB/s4.3 KB23:59:54
3news.furie.org.uk6.8 MB37.7 KB6.8 MB0.1 KB/s6.8 KB23:59:54
4peering.usenet.ovh4.3 MB222.7 KB4.5 MB0.1 KB/s8.3 KB23:59:54
5news.dne3.net4.3 MB5.3 MB9.5 MB0.1 KB/s5.5 KB23:59:54
6endofthelinebbs.peers.news.panix.com3.3 MB11.3 KB3.3 MB0.0 KB/s7.5 KB23:59:06
7photonic.trudheim.com2.3 MB3.6 MB5.9 MB0.1 KB/s3.3 KB23:59:53
8news.nk.ca1.1 MB2.9 MB4.0 MB0.0 KB/s7.1 KB23:59:54
9news.quux.org1.1 MB2.4 MB3.5 MB0.0 KB/s8.7 KB23:59:50
10news.nntp4.net1.1 MB32.9 KB1.1 MB0.0 KB/s4.1 KB23:59:54
11news.samoylyk.net1.1 MB338.7 KB1.4 MB0.0 KB/s36.9 KB23:59:54
12nntp.comgw.net1001.3 KB701.7 KB1.7 MB0.0 KB/s18.9 KB23:57:52
13newsfeed.bofh.team943.7 KB0.0 KB943.7 KB0.0 KB/s10.7 KB23:59:45
14ddt.demos.su913.4 KB0.0 KB913.4 KB0.0 KB/s130.5 KB05:28:33
15usenet.goja.nl.eu.org604.1 KB445.9 KB1.0 MB0.0 KB/s3.3 KB23:59:52
16news.hispagatos.org305.6 KB884.6 KB1.2 MB0.0 KB/s7.0 KB23:59:54
17news.bbs.nz268.0 KB4.0 MB4.3 MB0.1 KB/s7.3 KB23:59:44
18news.corradoroberto.it264.0 KB0.0 KB264.0 KB0.0 KB/s3.0 KB22:45:51
19i2pn.org241.4 KB154.7 KB396.1 KB0.0 KB/s3.6 KB23:59:54
20newsfeed.xs3.de184.3 KB1.2 MB1.4 MB0.0 KB/s8.0 KB23:59:54
21usenet.network163.4 KB89.4 KB252.8 KB0.0 KB/s2.6 KB23:58:57
22news.chmurka.net60.8 KB0.0 KB60.8 KB0.0 KB/s6.8 KB23:58:05
23news.weretis.net60.7 KB4.2 MB4.2 MB0.0 KB/s12.7 KB23:59:54
24news.tnetconsulting.net41.1 KB2.6 MB2.6 MB0.0 KB/s9.0 KB23:59:38
25usenet.blueworldhosting.com1.3 KB0.0 KB1.3 KB0.0 KB/s1.3 KB23:59:42
26feed.opticnetworks.net0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB0.0 KB/s023:59:54
TOTAL: 2648.5 MB33.9 MB82.4 MB0.0 KB/s5.9 KB604:05:30
Outgoing feeds (innfeed) by volume

NNRP connection statistics (by domain) [Top 100]:

SystemConnArtsSizeGroupsPostRejElapsed
1unresolved2784 00.0 KB 1 0 000:19:39
2*.scan.bufferover.run 2 00.0 KB 0 0 000:00:00
3*.monitoring.internet-measurement.com 1 00.0 KB 0 0 000:00:02
4*.stretchoid.com 1 00.0 KB 0 0 000:00:00
5*localhost 1 00.0 KB 0 0 000:10:59
TOTAL: 52789 00.0 KB 1 0 000:30:41

NNRP auth users [Top 20]:

UserConn
getlist 1
TOTAL: 1 1

NNRP total resource statistics [Top 20]:

SystemUser(ms)System(ms)Idle(ms)Elapsed
2001:41d0:a:280::1 10.439 34.139 0.00000:19:04
localhost 181.042 370.325 0.07400:10:59
198.235.24.39 0.000 0.015 0.00000:00:10
20.169.105.90 0.000 0.015 0.00000:00:09
198.235.24.132 0.000 0.014 0.00000:00:09
206.168.34.126 0.015 0.015 0.00000:00:04
liberating.monitoring.internet-measurement.com 0.000 0.016 0.00000:00:02
47.245.122.34 0.000 0.016 0.00000:00:00
147.45.112.183 0.004 0.011 0.00000:00:00
luxembourg.scan.bufferover.run 0.006 0.024 0.00000:00:00
azpdegb62.stretchoid.com 0.004 0.012 0.00000:00:00
TOTAL: 11 191.510 404.602 0.07400:30:41

Curious NNRP explorers [Top 20]:

SystemConn
2001:41d0:a:280::1 2778
luxembourg.scan.bufferover.run 2
147.45.112.183 1
198.235.24.132 1
198.235.24.39 1
20.169.105.90 1
206.168.34.126 1
47.245.122.34 1
azpdegb62.stretchoid.com 1
liberating.monitoring.internet-measurement.com 1
localhost 1
TOTAL: 11 2789

NNRP unrecognized commands (by host) [Top 20]:

SystemConn
luxembourg.scan.bufferover.run 8
147.45.112.183 1
206.168.34.126 1
azpdegb62.stretchoid.com 1
TOTAL: 4 11

NNRP unrecognized commands (by command) [Top 20]:

CommandCount
#001 2
#026#003#001#001 2
?#024 2
?$?(?#?' 2
#003 1
EHLO www.censys.io 1
MGLNDD_144.172.126.95_119 1
TOTAL: 7 11

NNRP client timeouts [Top 20]:

SystemConnPeer
147.45.112.183 1 1
TOTAL: 1 1 2

Newsgroup request counts (by hierarchy) [Top 100]:

HierarchyCountPct
1news 1100.0%
TOTAL: 1 1100.0%

Newsgroup request counts (by newsgroup) [Top 100]:

NewsgroupCount
1news.admin.peering 1
TOTAL: 1 1
innreport from INN 2.8.0 (20250201 prerelease) based on initial work (©) 1996-2001 by Fabien Tassin <fta@sofaraway.org> and enhanced by several contributors since then